@LunaDragofelis Indeed! And I had to use that site a few times too 🫠

@contrapunctus I was using XMPP back when Google Talk was still federating, and Diaspora was the hot new decentralized social media project. I'm not new to this. and that era pretty much *was* its heyday, and it has not recovered since.

@joepie91 So...no numbers.

@contrapunctus I do not take homework assignments, *especially* not from people who are clearly looking to pick a religious fight instead of having a normal constructive conversation.

you know as well as I do that the magnitude of the difference is so blatantly huge that demanding a 'source for the number of XMPP users' is a bad-faith tactic to try and win an argument.

@contrapunctus@en.osm.town you're onto a lot of valid criticisms i share about ap, also been here a long time!

atm, i think that some of it could be solved with better infrastructure, better-designed servers that adapt to the quirks of the network as it exists (while still remaining lean, especially for small communities, but for big ones too!)

but i think in the long term, activitypub won't be sustainable and Must change - if not be succeeded by a newer protocol. a combination of, being more abstract with how the services work internally (so you can hop between microblog, art galleries and forums on one account), being more rigid in expectations of how user posts should be displayed, and being held to higher standards for consistency and interoperability

it's a difficult problem to solve, especially while also accounting for small communities and self-hosting. bluesky quickly realized the pareto front of AP and optimized AT around the needs of a next-generation Twitter, which is the root of why AT doesn't scale down well at all. i firmly believe it's possible for the fediverse to achieve 95% of the bluesky experience without the intensive hosting needs of AT, and i think we'll see this change sooner than later

@serapath Thanks. For P2P ActivityPub, I've only heard of Holos...are there any other related projects?

@contrapunctus

i dont think there is anything production ready, but people could build apternatives on `dat`

@dat_ecosystem

one project that is experimentinf is called `peersky` ...it is also a dat ecosystem project

@peersky

@contrapunctus @serapath

https://codeberg.org/silverpill/minimitra - its nodes can communicate without servers

However, you don't need anything fancy if you don't want to be held responsible for actions of others. Hosting your own instance is enough

@silverpill @contrapunctus hm, sounds neat. have you considered using `dat` to build it?

what p2p stack are you using or did you build it from scratch? if so, how does it work?
...and how is data replicated p2p?

@serapath @contrapunctus

As a proof-of-concept, I made two nodes sync via a directory shared with Syncthing. It was basically a "shared outbox" where actors published their activities.

In another experiment, nodes connected to each other over iroh, using their identity keys as iroh addresses. I haven't looked into dat yet.

This was done to test the limits of FEP-ef61, a proposal that makes ActivityPub objects portable.