<![CDATA[I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption.]]>I've been using for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption.

(And yes, mass adoption is important. Whatever is adopted at large becomes something of a social imposition, a necessity to survive in the world...so I'd rather we adopt truly decentralized platforms rather than faux decentralized ones.)

1/

]]>https://citiverse.it/topic/4588eb4f-f8b0-47f2-9d67-c1bdc1de1c67/i-ve-been-using-activitypub-for-so-long-that-it-wasn-t-until-i-spoke-to-an-atproto-using-friend-that-i-realized-there-are-a-lot-of-issues-we-need-to-fix-to-make-it-easier-for-mass-adoption.RSS for NodeWed, 11 Nov 2026 01:36:01 GMTWed, 28 Oct 2026 18:23:52 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 04 Nov 2026 18:22:16 GMT]]>@serapath @contrapunctus

As a proof-of-concept, I made two nodes sync via a directory shared with Syncthing. It was basically a "shared outbox" where actors published their activities.

In another experiment, nodes connected to each other over iroh, using their identity keys as iroh addresses. I haven't looked into dat yet.

This was done to test the limits of FEP-ef61, a proposal that makes ActivityPub objects portable.

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://mitra.social/objects/01a1a7cc-23c1-7140-8b2c-ccad6931fe63https://citiverse.it/post/https://mitra.social/objects/01a1a7cc-23c1-7140-8b2c-ccad6931fe63Wed, 04 Nov 2026 18:22:16 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 04 Nov 2026 17:26:53 GMT]]>@silverpill @contrapunctus hm, sounds neat. have you considered using `dat` to build it?

what p2p stack are you using or did you build it from scratch? if so, how does it work?
...and how is data replicated p2p?

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://mastodon.gamedev.place/users/serapath/statuses/117559342782753712https://citiverse.it/post/https://mastodon.gamedev.place/users/serapath/statuses/117559342782753712Wed, 04 Nov 2026 17:26:53 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 04 Nov 2026 16:26:27 GMT]]>@contrapunctus @serapath

https://codeberg.org/silverpill/minimitra - its nodes can communicate without servers

However, you don't need anything fancy if you don't want to be held responsible for actions of others. Hosting your own instance is enough

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://mitra.social/objects/01a1a762-1b3e-7ce1-b95f-30e24000ae51https://citiverse.it/post/https://mitra.social/objects/01a1a762-1b3e-7ce1-b95f-30e24000ae51Wed, 04 Nov 2026 16:26:27 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Fri, 30 Oct 2026 13:45:29 GMT]]>@contrapunctus

i dont think there is anything production ready, but people could build apternatives on `dat`

@dat_ecosystem

one project that is experimentinf is called `peersky` ...it is also a dat ecosystem project

@peersky

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://mastodon.gamedev.place/users/serapath/statuses/117530160630189317https://citiverse.it/post/https://mastodon.gamedev.place/users/serapath/statuses/117530160630189317Fri, 30 Oct 2026 13:45:29 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Fri, 30 Oct 2026 13:12:02 GMT]]>@serapath Thanks. For P2P ActivityPub, I've only heard of Holos...are there any other related projects?

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117530029076638260https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117530029076638260Fri, 30 Oct 2026 13:12:02 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Thu, 29 Oct 2026 19:18:53 GMT]]>@contrapunctus@en.osm.town you're onto a lot of valid criticisms i share about ap, also been here a long time!

atm, i think that some of it could be solved with better infrastructure, better-designed servers that adapt to the quirks of the network as it exists (while still remaining lean, especially for small communities, but for big ones too!)

but i think in the long term, activitypub won't be sustainable and Must change - if not be succeeded by a newer protocol. a combination of, being more abstract with how the services work internally (so you can hop between microblog, art galleries and forums on one account), being more rigid in expectations of how user posts should be displayed, and being held to higher standards for consistency and interoperability

it's a difficult problem to solve, especially while also accounting for small communities and self-hosting. bluesky quickly realized the pareto front of AP and optimized AT around the needs of a next-generation Twitter, which is the root of why AT doesn't scale down well at all. i firmly believe it's possible for the fediverse to achieve 95% of the bluesky experience without the intensive hosting needs of AT, and i think we'll see this change sooner than later

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://dvd.chat/notes/asxhqsl1vyhttps://citiverse.it/post/https://dvd.chat/notes/asxhqsl1vyThu, 29 Oct 2026 19:18:53 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Thu, 29 Oct 2026 12:03:31 GMT]]>@contrapunctus I do not take homework assignments, *especially* not from people who are clearly looking to pick a religious fight instead of having a normal constructive conversation.

you know as well as I do that the magnitude of the difference is so blatantly huge that demanding a 'source for the number of XMPP users' is a bad-faith tactic to try and win an argument.

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://fedi.slightly.tech/users/joepie91/statuses/01M63RPF3XGQGACBBF9AV2077Dhttps://citiverse.it/post/https://fedi.slightly.tech/users/joepie91/statuses/01M63RPF3XGQGACBBF9AV2077DThu, 29 Oct 2026 12:03:31 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Thu, 29 Oct 2026 11:59:29 GMT]]>@joepie91 So...no numbers.

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117524081476338808https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117524081476338808Thu, 29 Oct 2026 11:59:29 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Thu, 29 Oct 2026 11:54:35 GMT]]>@contrapunctus I was using XMPP back when Google Talk was still federating, and Diaspora was the hot new decentralized social media project. I'm not new to this. and that era pretty much *was* its heyday, and it has not recovered since.

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://fedi.slightly.tech/users/joepie91/statuses/01M63R63ET3292CSBRYWYZ57ZChttps://citiverse.it/post/https://fedi.slightly.tech/users/joepie91/statuses/01M63R63ET3292CSBRYWYZ57ZCThu, 29 Oct 2026 11:54:35 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Thu, 29 Oct 2026 11:33:28 GMT]]>@LunaDragofelis Indeed! And I had to use that site a few times too 🫠

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117523979238817650https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117523979238817650Thu, 29 Oct 2026 11:33:28 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Thu, 29 Oct 2026 07:10:13 GMT]]>@joepie91 What is your source for the number of XMPP users? 🙂

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117522944081362767https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117522944081362767Thu, 29 Oct 2026 07:10:13 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 21:03:33 GMT]]>@LunaDragofelis @contrapunctus it was wrt to block reason. however that also means i can not disclose block reasons to users even if they ask.

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://catcatnya.com/users/navi/statuses/117520558539561012https://citiverse.it/post/https://catcatnya.com/users/navi/statuses/117520558539561012Wed, 28 Oct 2026 21:03:33 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 21:02:33 GMT]]>@navi @contrapunctus Would the criminal liability require stating the block reason (libel claim) or is it already too dangerous to state the mere fact that instance xy is blocked at all?]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://void.lgbt/objects/2ebc132c-dbea-4332-a82b-f03736a3e064https://citiverse.it/post/https://void.lgbt/objects/2ebc132c-dbea-4332-a82b-f03736a3e064Wed, 28 Oct 2026 21:02:33 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 21:00:02 GMT]]>@LunaDragofelis @contrapunctus i tried being transparent about blocks and it got a criminal complaint filed against me

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://catcatnya.com/users/navi/statuses/117520544704204359https://citiverse.it/post/https://catcatnya.com/users/navi/statuses/117520544704204359Wed, 28 Oct 2026 21:00:02 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:48:49 GMT]]>@contrapunctus @navi I think it would improve the situation a lot if the blocks were more transparent, and it wouldn't be a trial and error thing one only figures out after already having an account on the instance.

The functionality is there but too many admins are too paranoid about that one scraping site ran by right wing assholes that collects instance level block data and puts them in a searchable database, so almost all instances hide that information. Which I had to use a few times for myself when choosing an instance because the actual instance pages refuse to show the information that I need to know whether switching to a particular instance will cut me off from half my mutuals.]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://void.lgbt/objects/f063f042-6f45-4e2f-8ad8-c78110abe736https://citiverse.it/post/https://void.lgbt/objects/f063f042-6f45-4e2f-8ad8-c78110abe736Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:48:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:33:28 GMT]]>@contrapunctus @joepie91 to make your point more concise: It is not unnecessary friction for the same reason banning Nazis from bars is not unnecessary friction.

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://catcatnya.com/users/navi/statuses/117520440286060136https://citiverse.it/post/https://catcatnya.com/users/navi/statuses/117520440286060136Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:33:28 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:30:40 GMT]]>@contrapunctus (I also would like to point out that vastly more people use fedi today than have *ever* used XMPP even during its heyday, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there by bringing it up - it certainly isn't a federated success story)

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://fedi.slightly.tech/users/joepie91/statuses/01M623ABHTP97BABDGH7Y0BGV3https://citiverse.it/post/https://fedi.slightly.tech/users/joepie91/statuses/01M623ABHTP97BABDGH7Y0BGV3Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:30:40 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:22:40 GMT]]>@contrapunctus that is not an argument for why it's different and should deviate from common social conventions. that's an argument for why it's *annoying*, which is also true for being banned from a bar, and which was already integrated into my point.

something being annoying or creating friction, in and of itself, is not an argument to change that no matter the cost.

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://fedi.slightly.tech/users/joepie91/statuses/01M622VPYSSDNCREEDGCAP2S7Whttps://citiverse.it/post/https://fedi.slightly.tech/users/joepie91/statuses/01M622VPYSSDNCREEDGCAP2S7WWed, 28 Oct 2026 20:22:40 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:20:42 GMT]]>@joepie91 Please see the follow-up replies. In short - it created unnecessary friction for users, and it's a problem that doesn't exist on a number of *federated* platforms, let alone on centralized platforms...

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117520390035854348https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117520390035854348Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:20:42 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:16:41 GMT]]>@navi This is not an issue people face (as often) on email or XMPP, where domains are mainly blocked for sending spam + admin unresponsiveness. I've got like 5 different XMPP accounts on different servers and not one of them has this issue. And obviously the problem doesn't even exist on centralized networks - our biggest competitors.

3/

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117520374279164199https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117520374279164199Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:16:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:16:41 GMT]]>@contrapunctus @navi *do* we need to 'figure out a proper solution to that'? I feel like there's a bunch of unspoken assumptions in there about what people need or expect. people get banned from bars and other venues too, even if that means that they can no longer meet their friends there, yet this is generally seen as a perfectly reasonable tradeoff for the health of the space as a whole. likewise, no one bar is going to have everyone you might want to talk to, so you go to different places over time.

the details of the case are slightly different here because there are *two* venues involved, but if you feel that that changes things enough to drop common social conventions, then the argument for that should be made explicit rather than just sort of assumed.

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://fedi.slightly.tech/users/joepie91/statuses/01M622GRN6E4TM1T6BBX4RHCJRhttps://citiverse.it/post/https://fedi.slightly.tech/users/joepie91/statuses/01M622GRN6E4TM1T6BBX4RHCJRWed, 28 Oct 2026 20:16:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:15:35 GMT]]>@navi 3. I try transfem.social. Hey, Hachyderm doesn't block it! Nice...except now I can't follow some queer friends on shitpost.trade. And neither server seems to be on the blocklist for the other...wtf 😐

Users should not need to deal with this crap. On one hand we try to reduce friction in choosing a server, on the other hand we have hugely varying views of the network depending on the server you're on.

2/

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117520369943769111https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117520369943769111Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:15:35 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:10:13 GMT]]>@navi We seriously need to figure out a proper solution to that. Here's my actual Fedi story -
1. I try en.osm.town, follow many interesting people, realize I would like some more features (emoji reactions, Markdown, etc) and a better character limit.
2. I join fe.disroot.org, enjoy the Akkoma experience...but I can't follow a whole bunch of friends because they're on hachyderm.io. I act as envoy between the admins, but neither agrees to acquiesce to the others' demands.

1/

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117520348841776135https://citiverse.it/post/https://en.osm.town/users/contrapunctus/statuses/117520348841776135Wed, 28 Oct 2026 20:10:13 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption. on Wed, 28 Oct 2026 19:59:06 GMT]]>@contrapunctus 4 opens up server admins to legal liability. Hard no.

]]>https://citiverse.it/post/https://catcatnya.com/users/navi/statuses/117520305130020617https://citiverse.it/post/https://catcatnya.com/users/navi/statuses/117520305130020617Wed, 28 Oct 2026 19:59:06 GMT