Citiverse è uno spazio aperto a tutte le comunità. Se vuoi aprire un gruppo locale o una sezione per la tua organizzazione, puoi contattare gli amministratori: pagina dei contatti.
I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption.
-
I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption.
(And yes, mass adoption is important. Whatever is adopted at large becomes something of a social imposition, a necessity to survive in the world...so I'd rather we adopt truly decentralized platforms rather than faux decentralized ones.)
1/
-
I've been using #ActivityPub for so long that it wasn't until I spoke to an #ATProto -using friend that I realized there are a lot of issues we need to fix to make it easier for mass-adoption.
(And yes, mass adoption is important. Whatever is adopted at large becomes something of a social imposition, a necessity to survive in the world...so I'd rather we adopt truly decentralized platforms rather than faux decentralized ones.)
1/
Small issues:
1. A big server connecting to a small one for the first time can overload it. (Can't confirm.)
2. Searching for usernames can be slow. (Not IME)
3. Editing posts doesn't always update them on other servers.Big problems
1. You need a separate account for each ActivityPub service.
2. Native apps can't open links directly - need to copy-paste into the search bar.
3. Apps usually don't show the real like/boost count - only the ones from your own server.2/
-
Small issues:
1. A big server connecting to a small one for the first time can overload it. (Can't confirm.)
2. Searching for usernames can be slow. (Not IME)
3. Editing posts doesn't always update them on other servers.Big problems
1. You need a separate account for each ActivityPub service.
2. Native apps can't open links directly - need to copy-paste into the search bar.
3. Apps usually don't show the real like/boost count - only the ones from your own server.2/
4. Profiles of users on "new" servers can look empty until the initial fetch.
5. Server defederation can prevent legitimate users from communicating. Users should be able to override server blocks for specific users at a personal level. (This is already possible with certain kinds of blocks, but servers often use the highest-power block which doesn't let this happen.) Server blocks should be clearly communicated to users within the clients.
6. Moving servers is lossy. *stares at #Mastodon*3/
-
4. Profiles of users on "new" servers can look empty until the initial fetch.
5. Server defederation can prevent legitimate users from communicating. Users should be able to override server blocks for specific users at a personal level. (This is already possible with certain kinds of blocks, but servers often use the highest-power block which doesn't let this happen.) Server blocks should be clearly communicated to users within the clients.
6. Moving servers is lossy. *stares at #Mastodon*3/
absoluty. its collective punishment of all instance users. there is a solutiin to this and that is peer to peer fediverse
-
4. Profiles of users on "new" servers can look empty until the initial fetch.
5. Server defederation can prevent legitimate users from communicating. Users should be able to override server blocks for specific users at a personal level. (This is already possible with certain kinds of blocks, but servers often use the highest-power block which doesn't let this happen.) Server blocks should be clearly communicated to users within the clients.
6. Moving servers is lossy. *stares at #Mastodon*3/
@contrapunctus 4 opens up server admins to legal liability. Hard no.
-
@contrapunctus 4 opens up server admins to legal liability. Hard no.
@navi We seriously need to figure out a proper solution to that. Here's my actual Fedi story -
1. I try en.osm.town, follow many interesting people, realize I would like some more features (emoji reactions, Markdown, etc) and a better character limit.
2. I join fe.disroot.org, enjoy the Akkoma experience...but I can't follow a whole bunch of friends because they're on hachyderm.io. I act as envoy between the admins, but neither agrees to acquiesce to the others' demands.1/
-
@navi We seriously need to figure out a proper solution to that. Here's my actual Fedi story -
1. I try en.osm.town, follow many interesting people, realize I would like some more features (emoji reactions, Markdown, etc) and a better character limit.
2. I join fe.disroot.org, enjoy the Akkoma experience...but I can't follow a whole bunch of friends because they're on hachyderm.io. I act as envoy between the admins, but neither agrees to acquiesce to the others' demands.1/
@navi 3. I try transfem.social. Hey, Hachyderm doesn't block it! Nice...except now I can't follow some queer friends on shitpost.trade. And neither server seems to be on the blocklist for the other...wtf
Users should not need to deal with this crap. On one hand we try to reduce friction in choosing a server, on the other hand we have hugely varying views of the network depending on the server you're on.
2/
-
@navi We seriously need to figure out a proper solution to that. Here's my actual Fedi story -
1. I try en.osm.town, follow many interesting people, realize I would like some more features (emoji reactions, Markdown, etc) and a better character limit.
2. I join fe.disroot.org, enjoy the Akkoma experience...but I can't follow a whole bunch of friends because they're on hachyderm.io. I act as envoy between the admins, but neither agrees to acquiesce to the others' demands.1/
@contrapunctus @navi *do* we need to 'figure out a proper solution to that'? I feel like there's a bunch of unspoken assumptions in there about what people need or expect. people get banned from bars and other venues too, even if that means that they can no longer meet their friends there, yet this is generally seen as a perfectly reasonable tradeoff for the health of the space as a whole. likewise, no one bar is going to have everyone you might want to talk to, so you go to different places over time.
the details of the case are slightly different here because there are *two* venues involved, but if you feel that that changes things enough to drop common social conventions, then the argument for that should be made explicit rather than just sort of assumed. -
@navi 3. I try transfem.social. Hey, Hachyderm doesn't block it! Nice...except now I can't follow some queer friends on shitpost.trade. And neither server seems to be on the blocklist for the other...wtf
Users should not need to deal with this crap. On one hand we try to reduce friction in choosing a server, on the other hand we have hugely varying views of the network depending on the server you're on.
2/
@navi This is not an issue people face (as often) on email or XMPP, where domains are mainly blocked for sending spam + admin unresponsiveness. I've got like 5 different XMPP accounts on different servers and not one of them has this issue. And obviously the problem doesn't even exist on centralized networks - our biggest competitors.
3/
-
@contrapunctus @navi *do* we need to 'figure out a proper solution to that'? I feel like there's a bunch of unspoken assumptions in there about what people need or expect. people get banned from bars and other venues too, even if that means that they can no longer meet their friends there, yet this is generally seen as a perfectly reasonable tradeoff for the health of the space as a whole. likewise, no one bar is going to have everyone you might want to talk to, so you go to different places over time.
the details of the case are slightly different here because there are *two* venues involved, but if you feel that that changes things enough to drop common social conventions, then the argument for that should be made explicit rather than just sort of assumed. -
@joepie91 Please see the follow-up replies. In short - it created unnecessary friction for users, and it's a problem that doesn't exist on a number of *federated* platforms, let alone on centralized platforms...
@contrapunctus that is not an argument for why it's different and should deviate from common social conventions. that's an argument for why it's *annoying*, which is also true for being banned from a bar, and which was already integrated into my point.
something being annoying or creating friction, in and of itself, is not an argument to change that no matter the cost. -
@contrapunctus that is not an argument for why it's different and should deviate from common social conventions. that's an argument for why it's *annoying*, which is also true for being banned from a bar, and which was already integrated into my point.
something being annoying or creating friction, in and of itself, is not an argument to change that no matter the cost.@contrapunctus (I also would like to point out that vastly more people use fedi today than have *ever* used XMPP even during its heyday, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there by bringing it up - it certainly isn't a federated success story)
-
@contrapunctus (I also would like to point out that vastly more people use fedi today than have *ever* used XMPP even during its heyday, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there by bringing it up - it certainly isn't a federated success story)
@contrapunctus @joepie91 to make your point more concise: It is not unnecessary friction for the same reason banning Nazis from bars is not unnecessary friction.
-
@navi 3. I try transfem.social. Hey, Hachyderm doesn't block it! Nice...except now I can't follow some queer friends on shitpost.trade. And neither server seems to be on the blocklist for the other...wtf
Users should not need to deal with this crap. On one hand we try to reduce friction in choosing a server, on the other hand we have hugely varying views of the network depending on the server you're on.
2/
@contrapunctus @navi I think it would improve the situation a lot if the blocks were more transparent, and it wouldn't be a trial and error thing one only figures out after already having an account on the instance.
The functionality is there but too many admins are too paranoid about that one scraping site ran by right wing assholes that collects instance level block data and puts them in a searchable database, so almost all instances hide that information. Which I had to use a few times for myself when choosing an instance because the actual instance pages refuse to show the information that I need to know whether switching to a particular instance will cut me off from half my mutuals. -
@contrapunctus @navi I think it would improve the situation a lot if the blocks were more transparent, and it wouldn't be a trial and error thing one only figures out after already having an account on the instance.
The functionality is there but too many admins are too paranoid about that one scraping site ran by right wing assholes that collects instance level block data and puts them in a searchable database, so almost all instances hide that information. Which I had to use a few times for myself when choosing an instance because the actual instance pages refuse to show the information that I need to know whether switching to a particular instance will cut me off from half my mutuals.@LunaDragofelis @contrapunctus i tried being transparent about blocks and it got a criminal complaint filed against me
-
@LunaDragofelis @contrapunctus i tried being transparent about blocks and it got a criminal complaint filed against me
@navi @contrapunctus Would the criminal liability require stating the block reason (libel claim) or is it already too dangerous to state the mere fact that instance xy is blocked at all? -
@navi @contrapunctus Would the criminal liability require stating the block reason (libel claim) or is it already too dangerous to state the mere fact that instance xy is blocked at all?
@LunaDragofelis @contrapunctus it was wrt to block reason. however that also means i can not disclose block reasons to users even if they ask.
-
@contrapunctus (I also would like to point out that vastly more people use fedi today than have *ever* used XMPP even during its heyday, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there by bringing it up - it certainly isn't a federated success story)
@joepie91 What is your source for the number of XMPP users?
-
@contrapunctus @navi I think it would improve the situation a lot if the blocks were more transparent, and it wouldn't be a trial and error thing one only figures out after already having an account on the instance.
The functionality is there but too many admins are too paranoid about that one scraping site ran by right wing assholes that collects instance level block data and puts them in a searchable database, so almost all instances hide that information. Which I had to use a few times for myself when choosing an instance because the actual instance pages refuse to show the information that I need to know whether switching to a particular instance will cut me off from half my mutuals.@LunaDragofelis Indeed! And I had to use that site a few times too 🫠
-
@joepie91 What is your source for the number of XMPP users?
@contrapunctus I was using XMPP back when Google Talk was still federating, and Diaspora was the hot new decentralized social media project. I'm not new to this. and that era pretty much *was* its heyday, and it has not recovered since.
Ciao! Sembra che tu sia interessato a questa conversazione, ma non hai ancora un account.
Stanco di dover scorrere gli stessi post a ogni visita? Quando registri un account, tornerai sempre esattamente dove eri rimasto e potrai scegliere di essere avvisato delle nuove risposte (tramite email o notifica push). Potrai anche salvare segnalibri e votare i post per mostrare il tuo apprezzamento agli altri membri della comunità.
Con il tuo contributo, questo post potrebbe essere ancora migliore 💗
Registrati Accedi
Citiverse è un progetto che si basa su NodeBB ed è federato! | Categorie federate | Chat | 📱 Installa web app o APK | 🧡 Donazioni | Privacy Policy