@PavelASamsonov At least the hop to forks is like stepping over an invisible property line instead of a flight of stairs? It’s an insult we have to, though.

@dymaxion This did not get the recognition it deserves for breadth and lucidity despite high concision, so *thank you* for putting it out there, even if the prompting party was about as receptive as a shoe-pebble.

@ivanvector @richardgrant @liquor_american @jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard@circumstances.run

At this point, it looks like Mozilla leadership is deliberately trying to alienate their user base to shrink Firefox market share. Obviously this serves Google's interests.

I've been wondering lately how Mozilla leadership got there (what's the process to name and remove them?). Was Google involved in putting them in this position? How do we replace them with people who care about Firefox users instead?

@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @jaffathecake what about the same results appearing on mozilla connect, on github, on hacker news, on lobsters discussions? Whenever i go i just see a shared sentiment of criticism. Are all discussion places biased by no-AI enthusiastic power users brigading, or there is a slight probability that maybe there is too a bias inside Mozilla?

@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @jaffathecake i KNOW that it is impossibile, or at least very difficult, to make everyone happy but right now the opt-out kill button is just a tentative for damage control. I very well remember a lot of discussions a while ago when mozilla tried to restart and innovate Thunderbird. Still, even when a very minor vocal presence of old users were disappointed by the new UI/UX proposal, the team was able to address their concerns in very effective way, while integrating new features. This is not what is happening right now.

@firefoxwebdevs @alextecplayz “people have different definitions of opt-in”

How the hell did we get here?

“You can review and block the use of AI” sure doesn’t sound like opt-in to me.

@drahardja @firefoxwebdevs @alextecplayz

@firefoxwebdevs I feel like if the instructions are how to disable the features, then by definition that's an opt-out model.
I don't love popups, but I'd expect opt in to just throw a quick "we released X, do you want to try it out?"

@firefoxwebdevs
Where can you find the different definitions for opt-in?
I only know one.

@alextecplayz

@jdp23@neuromatch.social @drahardja@sfba.social @firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social @alextecplayz@techhub.social

It reminds me of this old forum post in an argument about D&D. One person claimed that his "opinion" is that following the rules is "cheating" if it leads to outcomes he doesn't like. Another person responded

That's not... that's not how opinions work. You can't just opinion your way out of definitions. It's like me saying, "In my opinion, I'm typing this post on a banana." It's just not what's happening.

@bicycle @firefoxwebdevs @alextecplayz

Probably in the same place that Trump finds multiple definitions of consent.

@firefoxwebdevs

You’re into “she really means yes when she says no” territory here and you should take some time off to think about what you’re doing here.

@firefoxwebdevs
This is - I believe - the best UX so far. If a feature is activated *after* a user interaction, this is good enough opt-in approach, that also balances a little marketing. I, for example, would like an AI tab grouper; but I wouldn't be able to know it exists if I dont firefox changelog (that avg user never do).

Cc: @giacomo @alextecplayz

@firefoxwebdevs Nobody who hasn't managed to replace their mental capacity with corporate doublethink has different definitions for opt in.

Do better

@alextecplayz

@firefoxwebdevs
Where is the full change log of android version located? I would like to find out which exact version introduced device/screen lock on private tabs - that seemed to be the issue.

@alvan@social.lol

#Firefox doesn't "balance a little marketing": in the screenshot provided by @firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social you can see at least two #DarkPatterns at work:

• a popup-wide button
• no mention of #AI whatsoever: "Suggest more of my tabs" is a very misleading label for "opt-in into AI controlled tabs from now on"!

#Mozilla is pushing #AI down the throat of most users, knowing very well that they would never activate it and without explaining them how it works.

And note that this has nothing to do with your personal preferences or people reading changelogs: as others have pointed out, if Firefox is so eagger to let people know about the new AI features, the could just showcase them just after update, providing a non misleading button to enabled each of them, like many other software do: https://ui-patterns.com/patterns/Guided-tour

As it stands, and given the alternatives, Mozilla #UX is overly malicious and I guess it would not pass any serious #GDPR compliance check.

Indeed I still wait for an answer to these questions: https://snac.tesio.it/giacomo/p/1770122154.401646

I guess it's because those model are updated frequently from #BigTech's servers around the world and Mozilla doesn't want people to realize how often their online status is revealed to such corporations through update checks by their " #privacy friendly" Firefox AI.

@alextecplayz@techhub.social