@ArneBab @vex @dveditz now you're just trying to make me feel better

@firefoxwebdevs @sarah even this response evades the point being made. I'm not asking nor talking about particular features. This doesn't seem like a conversation being had in good faith. Of course when AI is being implemented in a space conscious of its harms, it will come in with claws retracted.

But one needs only to look at how AI has been implemented aggressively in spaces where this isn't the case to see the inevitable harm to come. Grok from how it creates CSAM & non-consent porn from user images. Grok again from how it purposefully hides information & replaces it with lies. Claude with how it made all user files vulnerable to exposure via mere prompt injection.

This isn't some harmless technology just because LLMs have some legitimate uses, such as translation. The scale of investment in AI isn't one that the legitimate use cases could ever return a profit.

Right now it's being added to the browser against user wishes. Later it'll be expanded against user wishes. Gradually, to prevent the discomfort from losing too many users. But the end goal is transparently for there to be a gatekeeper for the entire Internet, able to transform what people see specifically based on what they believe, derived from their browsing habits.

& Yes Firefox isn't the entire Internet, but it is a popular enough entrance. And with chrome definitely going down such a path, & Google likely funding the current efforts for Firefox to do so as well, the intent is clear.

@firefoxwebdevs

(no, but I really need to take up the juggling balls and get some movement before I go to bed)
@vex @dveditz

@ArneBab @firefoxwebdevs @dveditz a wolf doesn't hide amongst sheep with its claws & fangs out.

LLMs have legitimate use cases, yes. AI is an intentionally misleading label over LLMs & tend to include the less legitimate (to put it mildly) use cases. Which telegraphs intent.

Google funds something like 90% of Mozilla. There's 0 chance they're not pushing Mozilla in this direction.

@firefoxwebdevs Why isn't it enabled by default?

@firefoxwebdevs @sarah maybe start by talking to your CEO:

> Firefox will remain our anchor. It will evolve into a modern AI browser and support a portfolio of new and trusted software additions.
https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/leadership/mozillas-next-chapter-anthony-enzor-demeo-new-ceo/

This vision is a huge reason why people are not convinced. That, and how getting Firefox to implement these controls at long last felt like pulling teeth.

@vex Mozilla has been filling up a war chest for the past years.

They can survive some years without Google.

And you say AI when you want to be understood by non-devs.

That’s not to say that you’re wrong. Just that I don’t consider your conclusion the only plausible one.
@firefoxwebdevs @dveditz

@ArneBab @firefoxwebdevs @dveditz of course it's not the only plausible outcome. "Claws retracted". But can legitimate use cases ever claw back the scale of investment in AI & turn a profit? No.

Will they stop taking Google's money? Unlikely.

Will they continue to force in the features Google says they must to continue being funded? Likely.

Will the company that dropped "Don't be evil" from their values not do evil? Unlikely.

@firefoxwebdevs This is so sad to watch.

Y'all need to pause and reflect on *why* the vast majority of your loyal user base wants nothing to do with your AI slop "features."

It's bad business. If you have to develop a kill switch for a whole class of feature because it's so toxic, maybe the need for a kill switch isn't the actual issue. Yeah?

Come on, we all know you're not this oblivious. Stop lying to yourselves and us.

@firefoxwebdevs You have lost all sense and sensibility. You have lost the plot. You are bleeding users and your idea to get them back is to introduce features NOBODY wants. You used to be a good alternative to corporate browsers, but you have become the evil you were fighting against. Good riddance.

@ArneBab @firefoxwebdevs @dveditz please don't neglect to take into account the context of these companies existing under fascism, since that context is essential. Control over information to the degree that browser integrations of AI can manage isn't something that fascism won't take advantage of. & We can already see the effects this has in media to know where this is headed.

@firefoxwebdevs pretty nice, wish more software allowed this

@vex which is why if Mozilla actually manages to get auditable on-device LLMs to provide the core features people already got dependent on, this can actually be important.

Will they do that? I don’t know.

But I know that if Mozilla as project and company bows to fascism, there are people in the EU with integrity who can carry on the baton.

Not as quickly without Google money, but some of that is happening already.

@firefoxwebdevs @dveditz

@firefoxwebdevs@mastodon.social I think it would be better if the toggle was somewhere in the main UI or hamburger menu, instead of buried in the settings tab.

I think it would also make sense to have an on-boarding prompt to enable/disable AI when people open the browser the first time or update to the version this is added.

As other people are pointing out, the default if noone has explicitly turned it on should be off.

@ArneBab @firefoxwebdevs @dveditz compare the number of users in mastodon vs twitter & you'll see how effective hoping people will use a safer alternative is. Mark my words, we're witnessing the conquering of the Internet itself. Or at least the attempt to do so.

But it appears this is where we'll agree to disagree.

@firefoxwebdevs This will just make firefox worse. aiSlop is already crashing and on the way out. Do the right thing here, get rid of it.

@firefoxwebdevs
AT LAST !

@firefoxwebdevs @viralobscurity Your translation red herring is insulting, and the laziest possible approach to addressing this massive misstep. Do better.

@firefoxwebdevs nice

I think if it runs locally, AI features are quite useful. E.g. I use translations daily. Tab grouping and image alt texts would also be great. Unfortunately they are probably not eligible to run locally.

@wojtek Interesting that you have a Vivaldi.net account, a browser that famously doesn’t include any AI features. Your question is a bit strange in this context, or maybe it’s just a bad attempt at being a contrarian.