@olokolo Yes, but here the issues are intertwined. Google thinking car first (which is a political bias) leaves it with crap cycle routing.

@jon @brad @notjustbikes @mcc For cycle routing, https://cycle.travel is great !

@jon @notjustbikes meanwhile in Barcelona Google refuses to even add the bike lanes (and happily sends you down the very busy road parallel to a good bike lane) even though the city has repeatedly tried to tell them everything they need is sitting right there in their open data portal.

@steven @brad @notjustbikes @mcc Oh take your pick, there are half a dozen. I am using Mapy, and am very happy with it.

@steven off topic, but are you aware of any gmaps alternatives that work for (1) business search and (2) transit directions? I'm moving from Google to Kagi but kagi maps are just worse

@jon @notjustbikes @mcc Depending on where you are, sure. Not everyone's in a place with a good non-Google closed alternative, and the closed alternatives aren't exactly great long-term anyway.

People really into their cycling will find and use those alternatives. Civilians like me need (want) a better general-purpose tool that will help with multi-mode travel - walking, cycling, public transport, and also for driving.

@brad I can't speak for anything outside Europe, but any OSM-based dedicated bike app does a solid job in every European country having, well, cycled in ALL of Europe as part of my work! @notjustbikes @mcc

@steven I'm happy to hear there are bike apps but my city is not very bike friendly

@jon @notjustbikes Google sucks for cars as well. Generally clueless about the roads it sends you over. They have all the data but they're not using it.

@jon @notjustbikes It's like do they even ride bikes in Europe? You don't even need to ride much in order to find out just how awful Google Maps is for cycling. The routes don't use the fastest paths, there's missing cycleways, occasionally Google sends you onto a forest path or the road doesn't exist at all.