@mike @quillmatiq @mmasnick that’s fine - but “not really moved the needle” is incorrect - there’s a sample of a dozen or so apps, out of many more.

All using the same protocol just like the AP ones you listed.

Go yell at Bluesky! It’s a company! They can do what they do and you can disagree.

The #ATProto community is building bottoms up.

It’s like saying you aren’t going to trust the email network because Gmail and Office365 are involved in routing email. This is how protocols work.

@mastodonmigration @quillmatiq @mmasnick Why not use a true and tried European (distributed) social network like Mastodon? Seems like a no-brainer to me.

@boris @quillmatiq @mmasnick My comment is not simply in regards to the number of apps. It is in the number of apps that truly federate between each other and in heterogeneous environments. My original comment was meant to convey that BlueSky/AT folks often talk a lot about dectralization and federation but from what I can see from the outside looking in it seems like lip service.

@boris @quillmatiq @mmasnick And if we're going to use the email analogy AT right now more resembles AOL email than SMTP.

@mike @quillmatiq @mmasnick all of the apps I listed and every account all federate with each other. There are over 2000 PDS hosts.

The data lives in every users account. Apps aggregate them as needed. It’s all connected and run by many people.

The criticism you are looking for is “Bluesky hosts too many of the accounts”…

…which the ATProto community is actively bottoms up growing. Yelling at us is not helping.

Got any suggestions? Want to donate? Support Blacksky, invest in Gander.

@mike it does not.

It’s an open protocol with 1000s of account hosts that anyone can spin up in seconds at low cost.

Oh, and it’s applying to join the IETF, just like SMTP.

@grumpydad @mastodonmigration @quillmatiq @mmasnick There’s no money involved in that

@doktorzjivago @mastodonmigration @quillmatiq @mmasnick No. But there are fewer right wing fascists here.

@boris @quillmatiq @mmasnick I'm not really "yelling" at you as voicing my misgivings about the atmosphere. I have no interest in participating in the AT community and I think I've already outlined my reasons why. Basically the fediverse checks most of my boxes while the atmosphere does not so that's where I'm directing my effort. I was merely trying g to explain why.

@mike conflating Bluesky-the-company and the ATProto community are not great. “Yelling”

It’s like as if I constantly shared the belief that Mastodon GMBH makes all decisions.

It’s wrong, and doesn’t respect the work of everyone that helps build the Fediverse.

I’d ask you to not do this. You don’t have to join, but spreading misinformation doesn’t help anyone.

@mastodonmigration @quillmatiq @mmasnick This is in technical terms tone deaf and a pile of shite

@mastodonmigration

@mastodonmigration @quillmatiq @mmasnick slightly more interested as BS dislikes it. Still not enough to support

@boris I didn't like the characterization that I was somehow being hysterical, I thought my comments reflected what a great many perceive to be true. So to put those fears to bed if BlueSky went away tommorow would all of the applications built on AT still be able to function and federate? Would devepment on the protocol continue independently?

@mike would email keep working if Gmail shutdown?

Tight coupling of accounts to domain names would mean a lot of people would lose their email identifier.

Those that have their own domains would repoint to a new host.

It would be really tough for a lot of people but yes email would continue.

Same for ATProto.

@boris If Mastodon.social goes away tommorow, thecanadian.social will still be able to function as will Pixelfed, Loops, etc..

I think you've answered my question.

@mike If Bluesky went away tomorrow, Blacksky will still be able to function, as will Leaflet, Spark, Stream Place, etc.

Even Bridgy Fed and Bounce will continue to function, we'd just have to swap out the relay for Bridgy Fed from Bluesky to Blacksky, Constellation, or one of the other options out there.

@boris

@quillmatiq @boris Thank you. That's the clear answer I needed. Progress is being made to actual independent federation. And I think you mentioned previously that they can all post to each other?

@mike Yes, but a caveat: microblogging apps like Bluesky and Blacksky are interoperating directly over the same lexicon.

Leaflet and blogging platforms are interoperating over one that makes sense for blogging (the one I mentioned earlier, standard.site), but post-to and post-back to microblogging sites (think the Note type vs Article type in ActivityPub - they work together, but an Article can be a link here and Notes can flow back to the blog).

So on and so forth for other lexicons.

@boris