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TIL the fediverse basically DDOS's sites when you share a link.
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If it's a signed checksum then maybe. But if the og instance is doing the abusing then it won't help.
Yeah there must be some trust indeed of the og instance. A scoring system could help with that.
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I shared a link from NPR Tiny Desk but there was no image preview or video embed. After investigating this I learned that when you do that, each instance picks up the link and individually retrieves the link preview nearly simultaneously. For gargantuan sites like YT or Reddit, this is a trivial amount of traffic and not a problem, but for smaller sites like NPR this results in a sort of botnet DDOS attack on the site's servers. More here. Another example here . For that reason, NPR has blocked Fediverse servers like Mastodon.
I have experienced this on my personal server as well (DDOS), but at the time didn't know why, exactly.
This isn't the end of the world, but certainly is not great and hurts engagement with the content. Is there a solution for this? Perhaps using some sort of webtorrent service like PeerTube where they just fetch the information from another fediverse server instead of the source server? Maybe fetching embeds client-side? At least that would stagger the requests.
E: Many people have replied comparing this to the Reddit "hug of death" or "The Slashdot effect". This is not the same at all. Those are legitimate site visits from humans that happen over the course of several hours. This is the result of several thousand servers all automatically fetching the same image simultaneously , and without any human involvement, and potentially next to zero human traffic to the site, which is why I compared it to a botnet or DDOS attack.
Is this the same thing as the “Reddit hug of death”?
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Is this the same thing as the “Reddit hug of death”?
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I have my blog address (which goes to my home server) in my Mastodon profile, and every time I post on Masto, my server gets a request from every Mastodon site that federates with my instance - i.e. hundreds of requests. It's no problem for my server, because my blog is a static site, but for anything that dynamically generates every single page impression (like worpress or joomla), it could be a problem. Caching settings might help, I suppose.
Truth is, though, I get far more traffic from vulnerability scanners and AI crawlers that don't honour robots.txt (or aren't yet listed).
that don’t honour robots.txt (or aren’t yet listed).
Throw'em in the tar pit.
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But what happens when a link target changes? For example, I've seen news articles change as the author gets new information. Might be an edge case, but a solution like this would always show the preview at the time of the initial post.
is this a bad thing though. like if im the poster I don't necessarily want the content to change compared to what I saw and was excited about so came to tell people about.
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is this a bad thing though. like if im the poster I don't necessarily want the content to change compared to what I saw and was excited about so came to tell people about.
yeah, you're not wrong...
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Is this the same thing as the “Reddit hug of death”?
Similar, except those are caused by users visiting a link, whereas the Fediverse issue is federated servers gathering info before users even see a link.
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I shared a link from NPR Tiny Desk but there was no image preview or video embed. After investigating this I learned that when you do that, each instance picks up the link and individually retrieves the link preview nearly simultaneously. For gargantuan sites like YT or Reddit, this is a trivial amount of traffic and not a problem, but for smaller sites like NPR this results in a sort of botnet DDOS attack on the site's servers. More here. Another example here . For that reason, NPR has blocked Fediverse servers like Mastodon.
I have experienced this on my personal server as well (DDOS), but at the time didn't know why, exactly.
This isn't the end of the world, but certainly is not great and hurts engagement with the content. Is there a solution for this? Perhaps using some sort of webtorrent service like PeerTube where they just fetch the information from another fediverse server instead of the source server? Maybe fetching embeds client-side? At least that would stagger the requests.
E: Many people have replied comparing this to the Reddit "hug of death" or "The Slashdot effect". This is not the same at all. Those are legitimate site visits from humans that happen over the course of several hours. This is the result of several thousand servers all automatically fetching the same image simultaneously , and without any human involvement, and potentially next to zero human traffic to the site, which is why I compared it to a botnet or DDOS attack.
So linking my own website here is a bad idea? Glad I haven't done that yet.
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GNUnet provides privacy-by design
Money doesn't want us to have privacy.
Forget the money. RevolutionOS!
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Or being slashdotted.
Or the Digg Effect
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Yeah, thats how it should be: one download, everyone else downloads from that server, not the original source.
Seems abusable though
It is, but that's what defederation is for: If there are instances that are being sketchy, they are supposed to get cut off from the rest of the Fediverse.
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This is no different from how it is already, though. If a user posts a CSAM link, your server immediately visits that link to scrape it, and you suddenly have that content on your server.
Of course, if you have a blocklist of forbidden sites, then your server will know not to scrape that site. And the same thing applies if we allow servers to send pre-scraped metadata. If the incoming message is for a blocked URL, just drop the message and don't save any part of it.
The only new threat here is for a malicious server operator to modify outgoing messages to include CSAM metadata on a harmless link. However, that possibility already exists with any other content posted on the fediverse. If a malicious server is modifying its own outgoing messages, the only fix is to defederate from it.
Allowing servers to forward pre-scraped metadata to other servers does not introduce any new threats that do not already exist.
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Yeah there must be some trust indeed of the og instance. A scoring system could help with that.
Or ... Or we could stagger the requests of the different instances so that they don't overload the linked site. Why reinvent the wheel?
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Or ... Or we could stagger the requests of the different instances so that they don't overload the linked site. Why reinvent the wheel?
Eventually that leaves the load to the source event if it’s differed. And the load would still grow along the growth of the fediverse. So this would likely be pushing the issue to tomorrow. Signing content checksum isn’t exactly like reinventing a wheel, it’s something done in many contexts. And it removes the load from the source entirely.
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Absolutely LOVE this idea but I feel like a solid implementation would be a pain in the fanny (and it also requires other peers to be online). I dip in and out over the day myself but I don't know what others use case is.
Also it is far less trustworthy and harder to block bad actors (V's removing a known bad actor from a relatively small peer group).
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It's almost like the software that powers the internet was designed for a different time and is only still used because there's monied interest in keeping it around. We need GNUnet.
Oh wow GNUNet I havent heard of that in a while. How is it nowadays?
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That's weird. Is that how it's supposed to work, or did they just implement it in a bad way?
I'm not sure but my guess it's an attempt to deal with the problem where sometimes federation activities arrive in the wrong order (especially after an instance has been offline for a while) - by making a GET to the origin server you can be sure you've got the latest version of the content. There are probably better ways to achieve that, though.
PieFed prioritises efficiency over correctness so it just accepts whatever is sent to it. In 3 years no one has complained about seeing stale content although I'm sure it happens occasionally.
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I've just had a look at the code to refresh my memory - it does use it
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I shared a link from NPR Tiny Desk but there was no image preview or video embed. After investigating this I learned that when you do that, each instance picks up the link and individually retrieves the link preview nearly simultaneously. For gargantuan sites like YT or Reddit, this is a trivial amount of traffic and not a problem, but for smaller sites like NPR this results in a sort of botnet DDOS attack on the site's servers. More here. Another example here . For that reason, NPR has blocked Fediverse servers like Mastodon.
I have experienced this on my personal server as well (DDOS), but at the time didn't know why, exactly.
This isn't the end of the world, but certainly is not great and hurts engagement with the content. Is there a solution for this? Perhaps using some sort of webtorrent service like PeerTube where they just fetch the information from another fediverse server instead of the source server? Maybe fetching embeds client-side? At least that would stagger the requests.
E: Many people have replied comparing this to the Reddit "hug of death" or "The Slashdot effect". This is not the same at all. Those are legitimate site visits from humans that happen over the course of several hours. This is the result of several thousand servers all automatically fetching the same image simultaneously , and without any human involvement, and potentially next to zero human traffic to the site, which is why I compared it to a botnet or DDOS attack.
So we need people to just mass post links to bad websites, is what you're saying.
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I've just had a look at the code to refresh my memory - it does use it
Sorry, I think I'm just blind. I tried a non piefed.social post earlier today and didn't see it in the JSON, but checking a piefed.social post now, the property is there. So either I just didn't see it the first time around, or the instance I tried it with wasn't the best example to use.
Anyway, deleted my comment. But then OP's post confuses me again, because there really shouldn't be a DDoS happening toward the small site. The instance hosting the thumbnail sure, but not the site that's being linked to.
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