@nuintari @firefoxwebdevs Now that‘s the big question: are the very outspoken crowd that hates AI features a majority of Firefox users or are they just very outspoken while those like such features but just don‘t care enough about them to speak up (against the outspoken crowd which can be stressful) here. I don‘t know.

@mike @alahmnat @firefoxwebdevs And then I spent a few hours not sleeping but thinking about your comment (never read mastodon when going to bed!)

Because this is not my impression. And I‘m wondering if the clever ranking mechanism of Kagi (don‘t recall the details but they are much better at filtering out all kinds of slop - AI and human) is why I don‘t see a worse internet today than years ago. Compared to clickbait titles, animated ad horror, AI‘s impact on my browsing is very minor.

@firefoxwebdevs Nice, happy that that’s finally in there, although the flow is a bit obnoxious, I’ve seen less aggressive warnings on actions that permanently delete data, so putting it on a switch that can easily be turned back on still makes it feel that you want people to use it way too much.

Imagine getting a similar warning when turning off any other feature…

@funbaker As long as the training source is used with informed consent (without coercion), I don’t mind image classification or automatic transcription.

ALT Text for images can be pretty important for blind people and replaces proprietary systems that do the same, but remotely.

For translation I’m unsure: biases AI copy from the target language are risky:
https://www.draketo.de/software/ai-translation-evaluated#completely-changed

Using AI for tab-group suggestions feels like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
@vex @firefoxwebdevs @dveditz

@firefoxwebdevs too little, too late.

@fabio @wojtek it does include translation, which people consider to be AI https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/115849251057488746. It even sends the text off-device to be translated, whereas Firefox does it on-device for privacy.

@ainmosni @firefoxwebdevs it does delete models. They can be re-downloaded, of course, but that might be significant disruption for some users

@KitsuneVixi @firefoxwebdevs we didn't call translation AI but people still consider it AI https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/115849251057488746

@alvan @firefoxwebdevs all of those features run locally

@budududuroiu @firefoxwebdevs "Preference falsification" is a neat rhetorical trick to ignore results one doesn't like. But the simple fact is that Mozilla made a post asking for feedback, and LITERALLY 99% of the replies were strongly negative.

So, who are Mozilla building this for? Not the users they asked about it, that's for sure.

@Mastokarl @alahmnat @firefoxwebdevs First, apologies for ruining your sleep!

Second, it is encouraging to think Kagi can do this. If it has an effective AI filter that might be what distinguishes it enough from Google that a critical mass of people switch.

(I can't imagine how you could program such a thing, though, when the whole point LLM output is to mimic human output as closely as possible.)

@jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs About as much disruption as downloading them by default for the people who are flipping this switch, no? Hardly seems worthy of a bigger warning than deleting stuff from a hard drive.

@mike @firefoxwebdevs A vocal community of a couple thousands is not representative of the millions of Firefox users. Most people don't care about AI in their browser.

@budududuroiu @firefoxwebdevs I wonder what your motivation can be for so strongly wanting a 99% consensus to be misrepresentative.

@mike @firefoxwebdevs You consider negative comments in a niche community (most Firefox users aren't forum dwellers) to be representative? I mean, at this point we're just playing team sports and "I'm Team No AI"

@dveditz @ArneBab @firefoxwebdevs here is why I think they are:

1. Silicon valley/"big tech" pushed for fascism in politics.
2. If AI is placed at every major access point to the internet, it'll create an unprecedented amount of control over information, monopolized by its owners.
3. If AI is placed around point-of-sale access, it'll create an unprecedented amount of control over who can buy what & at what price. Even without, but especially if digital currencies become the standard.
4. The combination of 2 & 3 will allow for unprecedented population control, literally allowing those at the wheel to deny essential goods & services to the noncompliant, while rewarding compliance.
5. Fascism's wet dream is 4. Fully automated domination.

Even though you work at Mozilla, I don't expect leadership to be forthright about such a thing. I mistrust AI itself so much that I presume anyone defending it to be either a liar, or naive about how colonialism functions (& its connection to AI).

@firefoxwebdevs is 147 considered heavy-weighted (without the kill-switch)? Sometimes I need a lightweight Firefox to run on older androids and as usual as AI is I would rather give features up for performance.

As it stands right now 147 struggle to open tab lists.

@ainmosni @firefoxwebdevs when do they download by default?

@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @jonny

Real

"Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong." vibes.

@jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs that is perfect then!