@davidt @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant

No, we want European infrastructure to be controlled by ordinary Europeans, not multinational corporations.

VC startups are only set up to be sold out to the highest bidder, which is usually outside Europe. VCs don't care what happens to their startup, they just want to sell out and get the money.

Other problems with W are:
-They're using fascist phrases and clothing
-They're erasing Mastodon from history
-They're centralised with all the problems that brings (list of them at https://fedi.tips/why-is-the-fediverse-on-so-many-separate-servers/ ).

@FediThing @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant I hear you, the reason the US is so successful in building that infrastructure that we're all now so hooked on and deeply embedded within though is because of VC startups - I don't think governments and institutions have the risk appetite for stuff like this. Besides, do you think W creators would have instead worked on infrastructure if not for this? I don't think so personally. We can have both!

@fedi @aral @nicolasvivant Cringe-worthy. At this juncture, cosplaying fascists isn’t edgy or ironic, it’s just stupid and counterproductive.

@fabio @nicolasvivant @aral And it seems like they are going to rely on AI for moderation/filtering and will not ban accounts. I guess fascist would be ok.

The clip where the CEO say they won't ban people https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxOqOEys_yr23eTXrV4CiYJf5S4Nmim1Zf?si=KTernWSN8HRmP7Dv

@aral @nicolasvivant

More #techshit to compost.

techshit – #OMN (Open Media Network)

(hamishcampbell.com)

@bob @aral
But what if we build *our own* homegrown torment nexus?

@davidt @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant

The purpose of connecting people isn't to make money, it's to provide vital infrastructure.

VCs are the wrong vehicle for vital infrastructure.

Look at the sheer scale of electoral interference through Meta and Twitter/X. Musk especially is using Twitter/X to promote fascists.

These are failures, they are failing society and even getting people killed ( https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/06/rohingya-sue-facebook-myanmar-genocide-us-uk-legal-action-social-media-violence ).

"I don't think governments and institutions have the risk appetite for stuff like this. "

The costs of building something like the Fediverse are absolutely tiny (some prices for scale: https://masto.host/pricing ).

@FediThing @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant I don't disagree with that. I just don't see how that means we have to discourage EU VC funded or even bootstrapped startups. I think we can and should encourage both.

@FediThing @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant Also, no digital experience is going to truly connect people I don't think. It creates a false sense of connection that leaves us feeling ultimately unfulfilled and disconnected from the world. Only real life interaction truly connects people.

@davidt @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant

The incentives for VCs are all wrong on social media and internet services, the ownership structure inevitably leads to "enshittification" as @pluralistic has documented in great detail.

They provide a wonderful service to hook people in, then once people are locked in they degrade the service to the point where it's much worse and more expensive than the original alternatives.

We don't need VCs to be controlling things, they misuse that control.

@mastodonmigration @aral @nicolasvivant The stock is worth €2500 approximately, which is the absolute lowest amount you need to go in with in order to get the approval to start a private company in Sweden lol

@FediThing @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant @pluralistic if you want adoption unfortunately I think it needs some level of centralisation just based on how humans interact to be honest - if you want full decentralisation then we have it in the fediverse, but we just won't get the adoption. Not sure there's a perfect solution to be honest.

@davidt @FediThing @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant When it comes to social media we don't want just another people farming operation, which VC-funded social media inevitably turns into because they have to pay the piper. We're literally having this conversation on a better model.

@davidt @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant @pluralistic

The telephone network is decentralised, as is the email network and the postal network. When it existed, the telegraph networks were also decentralised. You don't need one corporation controlling everything for global networks to connect together.

Even Facebook and Google used to use a decentralised messaging standard called XMPP that allowed people outside the network to message their members, but they decided to abandon this for commercial reasons. Goverments could have easily forced them to continue.

@woe2you @FediThing @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant I agree! I do think centralisation is what helps adoption (just based on the evidence thus far). I am not convinced social media in any form (including this) is healthy for humans. We aren't designed for this level of inputs all the time. Our brains are always scanning for threats and social media is a constant influx of potential threats!

@FediThing @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant @pluralistic Interesting to think about that actually (telephone network and email etc). I hadn't considered those as examples of decentralised, popular communication methods.

@davidt @woe2you @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant

"I am not convinced social media in any form (including this) is healthy for humans."

Ah well that's another issue, I'd tend to agree with you on that one. It is maybe an even more difficult problem to solve!

@FediThing @woe2you @fedi @aral @nicolasvivant convinced if the USA sanctioned the UK for example or vice-versa we'd have some serious problems around infrastructure that we no longer can use or own however the social side would be way better. Way less extremism spread and people would rediscover in-person hobbies and community again which we're all sorely lacking.

@davidt Because the problem with American Surveillance Venture Capitalism isn't solved by replacing the "American" with "European". And no, we don't want more surveillance companies.

Furthermore, "Make Europe Great Again" is a reference to fascism.

@aral @nicolasvivant this is even more cringe than "macro hard"