@jaffathecake @froztbyte you aren't reading a part of the web. The translation was never on the web. Nobody had the opportunity to make sure it's right and nobody ever will. Ethics go farther than privacy.

I don't care if you personally don't use the chatbot feature. The existence of it in the default build will actively normalize and promote it to a userbase larger than the population of Brazil. Is social irresponsibility part of the manifesto here ?

@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard You're really not helping yourself or Mozilla with this stuff, Jake. We're never going to see you as someone's victim when you're so set on avoiding the *real* issue that literally everyone is calling out to you. You don't get a medal for seeking feedback if you then ignore that feedback and openly disdain the users who provided it. Bogus shit.

@duke_of_germany @jonny @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard

It is impossible to read this post without thinking of this recent article about Wikipedia’s internal strife and how communities become ossified and refuse to adapt to new conditions and then promptly die.

The organization version of progress advancing one funeral at a time

Is Wikipedia's Volunteer Model Facing a Generational Crisis?

The clash over AI-generated summaries reveals Wikipedia's challenge in adapting to younger audiences' media habits.

IEEE Spectrum (spectrum.ieee.org)

@ddelemeny @froztbyte how do you feel about a11y tooling that analyses images to describe them? Therefore providing people with visibility into things they otherwise wouldn't have.

That also is generating content in a format that was never on the web. Nobody had the opportunity to make sure it's right and nobody ever will.

@duke_of_germany @jonny @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard hi duke can you please give some context,i am new here in mastodon so i have no clue what are you talking about and beside that what do you recommend instead of firefox cause as far as i know google opera and brave all of them worse in many aspects
Edit:sorry duke i just saw his interesting comment about users here but i am still asking you if you have better recommendation

@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard In case my feedback isn't clear, here's how your responses are (correctly) received here:

Chaff (countermeasure) - Wikipedia

(en.wikipedia.org)

@jonathankoren @duke_of_germany @jonny @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs

> the volunteer community that built this encyclopedia has lately rejected a key innovation designed to serve readers

this article is AI shilling, nonsense and that should have been obvious at a glance

@jaffathecake @froztbyte exactly the same. You don't go around the ethical problem of the absence of authorship by invoking pathos (and borrowing legitimacy from disabled folks is morally sketchy to put it mildly).

Even more so as available technologies are far remote from being able to convey intent, context and nuance. This is misplaced half-baked solutionism.

@ddelemeny @froztbyte ok, then we simply disagree.

@sotolf @barubary @jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs it is literally Jake's job to be like this

@davidgerard @duke_of_germany @jonny @jaffathecake @firefoxwebdevs Is “shilling” what the kids call “an opinion that makes me uncomfortable because it doesn’t comport to my preëxisting beliefs”?

This type of stimulus-response behavior is really beneath you.

You could have stopped to think about how organizations actually adapt without buying into the billionaire hype, but instead it’s just banging rocks together and grunting

@jaffathecake @ddelemeny I’ve seen a number of accessibility-using people critique this stuff, fwiw. A number of them echo the “let me choose my own”

For my own part: given the error rate problem combined with the (presumably) reduced capacity for the affected user to verify veracity/accuracy, I think it’s *even more* dangerous when this stuff hallucinates or miscategorizes

I agree the *idea* is nice, but do not believe that this implementation/generation has solved the problem

@firefoxwebdevs It's good that you are bucking the trend and even putting controls in at all, but AI features are such that they absolutely require informed consent

Which means default off

@giacomo @alextecplayz none of the current AI features are involved in opening a new tab.

@RandomDamage https://mastodon.social/@firefoxwebdevs/116006634077716055

@jaffathecake @froztbyte @barubary If you can't share your data and methods, I give that even less credence than an informal and biased poll question on a social network. Much like cigarette industry research was shared or not shared based on whether results would have helped or harmed the business model, my default presumption is that user sentiment data will be not shared because executive fiat has already mandated work counter to user desires. "No AI" is already a non-option.

@froztbyte @ddelemeny my favourite talk on the topic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij-GLix2QUQ

Back to translation, I use it with awareness that some of the subtleties may be wrong, and that feels much better than having zero access to the content in a language I understand. I see that others feel differently, but that simply isn't my experience.

@firefoxwebdevs nah, sticking with Waterfox where I don't have to worry about "ai" bullshit at all.

Hello @flytox , welcome to Mastodon!

(If you really want the full context, read this thread, but I do not recommend it. It will not make your life better. )

As for browsers, the situation is not great. ️

Just as a suggestion for a starting point:

Try out:

- Waterfox
- LibreWolf
- Vivaldi

Also follow them:

@Waterfox @librewolf @Vivaldi

and compare the way they interact with people in contrast to what you see in this thread.

@jaffathecake @duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs evidence was clearly that "folks who don't like AI" don't like AI *BUILT INTO FIREFOX*

you are wasting everyone's time and misrepresenting all the arguments as an irrational denial of AI that others might find useful.

It was always about the absurdity of integrating something, ANYTHING, that is not critical to web browsing, directly into the browser instead of making it a plug in, on equal ground to 3rd party developers.

Instead, this nonsense