Hey @bonfire @mayel and crew, if you ever feel like putting a spec down to attach academic citations to #ActivityPub objects for your Open Science Network, ping me.

Hey @bonfire @mayel and crew, if you ever feel like putting a spec down to attach academic citations to #ActivityPub objects for your Open Science Network, ping me.

I have ideas for building something out of https://schema.org/ScholarlyArticle, https://schema.org/citation and dashes of https://w3c.github.io/scholarly-html/ for @encyclia. Could enable e.g. “this post discusses this article”, “find posts related to this publication”, or long-form articles with declarative references.

Maybe @jonny has thoughts too?

@general

@bonfire @mayel @jonny This is all spitballing, but I think letting people tag academic publications in posts just like they currently tag accounts could be kinda neat. Shouldn't even need to break compatibility with current software either.

@julian

That would be great! We anyway want to federate link preview metadata (I see there's https://helge.codeberg.page/fep/fep/8967/ though nobody seems to have implemented it yet) so it'd be great if it was done as an extension of that, so that non-scientific platforms can still show a subset of the preview information at least? And yeah looking at existing schemas to reuse sounds great, maybe we can collaborate on a FEP draft that just points to those and shows some examples?

@mayel @jonny @smallcircles

@julian

Have you also looked at:

1. https://schema.datacite.org
2. DOI Kernel Schema
3. ORCID seems to use CreativeWork from schema.org (we fetch orcid records in JSON but I'd have to double check what schema that's giving us) https://iphylo.blogspot.com/2020/01/orcid-serves-schemaorg-linked-data-via.html

@mayel @jonny @smallcircles

@bonfire @julian @mayel @jonny @smallcircles

see also http://purl.org/spar/cito with an explainer at http://www.sparontologies.net/ontologies/cito

@bonfire I like FEP-8967, but my intuition is that citation information is kind of orthogonal to link previews. It could well make sense for software to emit/consume both, but if I'm federating an academic article like https://fietkau.science/content_interaction_public_displays, do I want to bundle 25 link previews? It seems incongruent to how those are used. More crucially, not every academic citation will have a URL, it might just be an old book with title + author + publisher + year.

@mayel @jonny @smallcircles

@julian

ah based on that example we may be talking about different things, so far we've been thinking more of how you would federate and preview the metadata of https://fietkau.science/content_interaction_public_displays (assuming it is a publication or any kind of research object) rather than how you'd federate all the references if that text was published directly on the fediverse... which could be done different but also it could be app to the UI to decide if/how to use/display the link metadata

@mayel @jonny @smallcircles

@bonfire A bit, yeah. I'm sure each one has pros and cons for the purpose, but I'm in favor of picking something that's ready for use with linked data. We might be able to avoid defining a new JSON-LD context that way.

schema.org's CreativeWork is a supertype of ScholarlyArticle. Curious why ORCID doesn't use the subtypes even though they have the type information in their own data. (Their JSON schema is altogether different from their JSON-LD I think.)

@mayel @jonny @smallcircles

@julian @bonfire @mayel @jonny

With #OpenScience we talk of an entire field that has a lot to fight for, given all that's wrong around academic publishing processes and the strangehold of commercial parties.

Also a field full of people who might design/deliver rock-solid robust & *interoperable* open standard specifications.

There's ample opportunity to start something like ForgeFed, a dedicated protocol extension spec. Working name: #ScienceFed and it can be homed at https://codeberg.org/fediverse

@trwnh Thanks, I hadn't come across this. Nice and detailed. I like that this can encode the type of citation (discusses, summarizes, critiques, ...), I don't love that it does it with a long list of optional properties on the citation object rather than one property with a value range. Feels like it'd be a pain to parse for plain JSON consumers this way. Will think on it more.

@bonfire @mayel @jonny @smallcircles

@julian @bonfire @mayel @jonny @smallcircles

you can reify the citation as a Citation object and then express the type of citation with the hasCitationCharacterization property? see the explainer's first example on "direct form" vs "reified form"

@julian

makes sense, though would be great to heard from academics on this, whether involved/informed on the the topic of schemas or not...

and thanks for the hint, will have to check if we're getting the regular json version instead of the json-ld one...

@mayel @jonny @smallcircles

Obligatory reference when looking at standards

@julian @mayel @jonny @smallcircles

@bonfire @julian @mayel @jonny

The situation that exists now is that each dev creates their own standard, which is way way worse.

@bonfire @julian @mayel @jonny

Also btw, this discussion takes place on an ephemeral channel, where after the toot flood everyone goes their own way with different expectations

@bonfire @julian @mayel @jonny

At least I will state my interest from the perspective of custodian of Social coding commons movement, which has an ambition that open science becomes seamlessly embedded within the commons with lowest barriers to free knowledge transfer towards broader society and back.

The chaordic organization formula that I am pondering allows for pillars to be created around specific themes, to help make them strategically and organically grow over time. Like Open Science.

@bonfire Right – with OSN you're also thinking about academic creation, not only sharing? So letting authors declaratively cite specific sources in their posts could be good, as would searching/filtering for “what else cites this”.

Although tbh, my motivation for now is interop between Encyclia and OSN. I want Bonfire to recognize Encyclia posts as what they are (automated metadata summaries of specific academic works) and separate those from human discussions.

@mayel @jonny @smallcircles

@bonfire @julian @mayel @jonny

Oh, I should also mention that I intend to port and reboot https://fedi.foundation which I can also offer as a place where ScienceFed can inform the public about its work.

This site is intended to be a multi-author publishing service for participants in Social coding commons, specifically around themes of applied research for the social web of tomorrow.

@smallcircles @julian @mayel @jonny does it federate?

@bonfire FWIW, Encyclia currently fetches plain JSON from ORCID and re-emits as human-readable ActivityPub Notes. ORCID's own types, which are used in (non-LD) JSON payloads, are listed in the second column here: https://info.orcid.org/ufaqs/what-work-types-does-orcid-support/ Dunno if those map cleanly to schema.org types but the palettes are small enough that we can figure it out.

@mayel @jonny @smallcircles