Let's recap, just in case any adults are still watching this conversation.

I saw a bunch of goons attacking a kid on Reddit for building Fediverse software on a platform they don't like.

Mentioned it here and asked "what would make the Fediverse a more welcoming place?"

Fast forward to people with no nuance calling me "pro-Nazi." Thank you, kids, for demonstrating the problem I'm trying to avoid.

@davidgerard@circumstances.run @rakoo @jdp23 @scottjenson @thisismissem

I'm happy to talk to anyone here on the Fediverse, and to talk in good faith about how we make this better.

When people prove that they can't behave well, the adult response is to block liberally and move on. There's no debate to be won with people who can only think in black and white.

@theorangetheme @davidgerard@circumstances.run @rakoo @jdp23 @scottjenson @thisismissem

I agree with your entire post. And, I don't think I ever said "welcome everybody." If I did, it was a mistake and I'm sorry.

Definitely NOT everybody. There are some red lines that people can't cross. So no, "are you a Nazi" isn't a purity test.

But let's not pretend that the Fediverse doesn't have purity tests.

@benpate @rakoo @jdp23 @scottjenson @thisismissem I'm not really interested in litigating the broader fediverse. I know what I will and will not accept, and I act accordingly with the tools I have. This gives me the most agency and is also the most feasible solution to dealing with people online I don't like.

You said you want it to be "inclusive place for everyone". So, one possible followon is to think about how to rephrase that more in line with what you really mean.

As for purity tests ... this is a term that right-wingers and centrists routinely use to attack any attempt by progressives and leftists who critique politicians for taking anti-trans positions, or voting for anti-immigrant or anti-Black bills, or not opposing genocide, etc etc etc. So really the best thing is not to use this term. But if you are going to use it, "no Nazis" absolutely is a purity test -- and so is "no transphobes". So yes the Fediverse has them, but that's not a bad thing.

@benpate @theorangetheme @rakoo @scottjenson @thisismissem

This seems perfectly reasonable

I'm a tool maker. I'm taking a hard look at "the tools we have" and wondering why they're still failing.

Technology will never change human nature or the cultures we develop.

But maybe we can make tools that fit human nature better, that foster more intelligent discourse, and that let communities find each other without descending into extremism.

Any ideas? What tools would work better?

@theorangetheme @rakoo @jdp23 @scottjenson @thisismissem

@kevingranade @benpate @davidgerard @rakoo @jdp23 @scottjenson @thisismissem And let people see you punching the Nazis, over and over again. Nothing is more welcoming to ordinary people than seeing Nazis get punched. Nazis need to know they're going to get punched for the rest of us to feel safe.

I don't think this is fundamentally a technology problem. Tools can help, but they're not the place to start.

I think a better starting place is

• you and other influential fedi people to be more outspoken that fedi is a place where a lot of people -- including you -- are opposed to fascism and surveillance capitalism, care a lot about LGBTQIA2S+ people and consent.

• influential fedi devs and the CG should prioritize making new develoeprs aware that these norms are important and it's easy to run afoul of them, and develop material to help new developers learn te risks. (The nobot flag @julian and I were just talking about in another thread is another one of these footguns waiting to happen.)

• When stuff like this comes up, ground yourselves in these principles rather than focusing on civility. And when it's an unintentional mistake (whcih it often is), reach out to the people involved to give them the context and try to get it resolved quietly -- or at least help them understand why it blew up -- rather than throwing gas on the flames.

• As @stevendbrewer says, let people see you punching the Nazis, because people really like that -- and it doesn't happen that much on most social networks.

https://wandering.shop/@stevendbrewer/116971019179558719

• And especially if you're cis and/or white, and/or a guy also step in when you see racist or anti-trans or sexist incidents. Call the person in (or out if necessary), or if somebody else has already done the call in/out support them.

@benpate @theorangetheme @rakoo @scottjenson @thisismissem

@jdp23 the thing that always concerns me about big fedi is the need to connect everyone on the one network to rule them all. Which to me is risky.

"“There are 8 billion humans, and we should aim to serve every single one….We can’t exactly hold up the Fediverse as a viable alternative when we leave so many people behind.”

— Ben Pate at Fedicon August 02 2025"

Enabling connection online, yes. Making networks accessible to everyone absolutely. Not on one network.

https://dotart.blog/cobbles/reflections-on-fedicon-and-foss-guilt-by-association

@jdp23 I prefer the idea of archipelagoes to be honest.

@onepict yes! archipelagos FTW! @noracodes's post really changed how I thought of the possibilities here, and it's great to see the work Oliphant and Bonfire (which now has an archipelego mode!) are doing to move things in that direction

@jdp23 @thisismissem
I feel like I'm walking on egg shells. I'm just trying to make a simple point:
* People have left the fediverse because of over-zealous behavior
* I'd like there to be less of that so good people stick around.

That's it. Just to be clear: this does not mean I want to protect fascists. Those are not good people.

@davidgerard @benpate @rakoo @jdp23 @scottjenson @thisismissem actually yes the "missing the point" out is giving people too much credit / plausible deniability my bad.

@benpate So, my main takeaway from this is that so many of us are having fun on the Fediverse, we forget to participate in conversations *outside* the Fediverse, like on Reddit.

But that's the point where new people are finding us. The conversations about the Fediverse happening inside siloed social networks are the threshold people have to cross to get here.

We should be on the other side, welcoming them.

Thanks for the reminder. I just joined /r/fediverse and I'll try to help.

@benpate i wrote a piece on why i stopped hosting a server here https://gfsc.community/why-we-discontinued-our-mastodon-server/

@benpate Here's the thread for those who want to participate:

https://www.reddit.com/r/fediverse/comments/1v2mt69/i_built_a_full_fediverse_service_that_runs_100_on/

@toddsundsted

fascism does not seem to be a daily problem on the fediverse.

Is this a joke? The fediverse is full of loud and proud racists, misogynists, neo-nazis, etc. I'm just glad I don't have to see most of it because the moderators on my instance seem to be very good and quick to ban those servers.

If you want the developer who was the target of the snarky comments on Reddit to stick around, consider reaching out to her and giving some context as I did. If you'd like there to be less of that in general I've already said what I think will help elsewhere in the thread so won't bother to repeat it here.

And if you'd like to make progress on the harassment here in general, please use your influence as Strategy Advisor to the Mastodon team to get them to announce ASAP that they're going to prioritize implementation of long-overdue anti-harassment technology like reply controls -- something @inquiline and others have highlighted repeatedly plug a big gap -- and local-only posts ... and then to prioritize it and get it out quickly. Because that's something that could have a big immediate impact, and when people see you and the team not prioritizing that they assume you don't see it as a priority.

On your point elsewhere about the pattern of people misunderstanding you and overreacting rather than asking clarifying questions ... I asked several questions, and you didn't directly answer any of them -- even when I directly asked "am I understanding correctly?"

In terms of walking on eggshells, it probably feels that way because if you say that yes, you do think of them as similar, it could result i the same kind of blowup as a previous time you made a similar analogy. So, your feelings are warranted!

@scottjenson
@thisismissem

Agreed in general. If you look at my reddit post, I very much phrased it as a call in -- https://www.reddit.com/r/fediverse/comments/1v2mt69/i_built_a_full_fediverse_service_that_runs_100_on/. And similarly I called in both you and Scott on what I saw as an unfortunate analogy between a couple of rude posts on Reddit and the racist harassment the drove Black people away, rather than trying to blow it up into some kind of big firestorm. And my suggestions to Ben also included

And when it's an unintentional mistake (whcih it often is), reach out to the people involved to give them the context and try to get it resolved quietly -- or at least help them understand why it blew up -- rather than throwing gas on the flames.

That said there are times when call-outs are warranted. And in general even in situations where a call-in would probably have worked out better, it's not useful to complain about the lack of civility of the people making the call-out.

@thisismissem @inquiline @scottjenson

@jdp23 @scottjenson @thisismissem

>> if you'd like to make progress on the harassment here in general, please use your influence as Strategy Advisor to the Mastodon team to get them to announce ASAP that they're going to prioritize implementation of long-overdue anti-harassment technology like reply controls

Yes please, yesplease, yspls!! The lack of this feature is why I've had to stop recommending people join Mdon if they're likely targets--which hurts this community

Can say more if asked!